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Steve Wilkinson
16-09-09, 11:45
Not sure where to put this snippet I picked up at Bo'ness as I don't think the Scottish Hillclimb Championship is really a "club hillclimb" championship.

Anyway I heard that the Ghost has been protested. Anyone Up North got further news?

:confused:

jo white
16-09-09, 12:04
I heard along the Scottish/English grape vine that people including MSA were not too happy that it has no bodywork as such.

Personaly i think its a fab machine and does the job adequately + long live innovation, (if you dont need it junk it)

mx125
16-09-09, 12:09
Yes, But decline too comment .

Steve Wilkinson
16-09-09, 13:47
I heard along the Scottish/English grape vine that people including MSA were not too happy that it has no bodywork as such.

Personaly i think its a fab machine and does the job adequately + long live innovation, (if you dont need it junk it)

I understand that the lack of bodywork is the problem and that there was supposed to be bodywork in place this year.

:confused:

PaulR
16-09-09, 13:52
The MSA define 'bodywork' as,

All entirely sprung parts of the car in contact with the external air stream, except the rollover structures and the parts definitely associated with the mechanical functioning of the engine, transmission and running gear. Airboxes and radiators are considered to be part of the bodywork. Exterior rear view mirrors are not considered to be part of the bodywork...

Paul

FLoads
16-09-09, 14:04
I know that I am old and thick but ?????????????? Does it go one to say that you must have, in simple language, nice smooth painted sheets of carbon fibre, aluminium, steel panels covering the "vehicle" ?

DaveK
16-09-09, 14:12
Steve

It's probably why it was sporting a clear perspex cover over the pedals at shelsley to satisfy the scutineer requirements

Dave

blackx
16-09-09, 14:15
IIRc it has been protesetd before hasn't it ?

Dont see the problem myself but hey ho....

Steve Wilkinson
16-09-09, 14:49
Steve

It's probably why it was sporting a clear perspex cover over the pedals at shelsley to satisfy the scutineer requirements

Dave

Again I understand it is the lack of bodywork which was promised to be in place that is the problem.

:confused:

jedi088
16-09-09, 17:00
Why protest it . It's already fast enough without making a nice clean hole in the air . Maybe if the bodywork is made of lead the others will have a chance .:D

Richard Dunn
16-09-09, 20:12
Why protest it? Because the rules and the scrutineers say otherwise.
Fast enough, maybe.
GWR Raptor has full body work, even over the engine and a carbon tub.
Times at Golspie for the Ghost and the Raptor last weekend were astonishing. Jonathon 1 track record, Lee Adams in the Raptor the other. Two different tracks over the 2 days.
Jonathons is a space framed car with very little sticking out each side to act as a crumple zone or blocker of intrusions. The new Raptor has a carbon floor, side pods and other bits to absorb impacts + a carbon tub.
The Raptors bodywork is not made of lead, more like helium, but the carbon tub is as strong as anything.
I agree J.R has a standard engine and the Raptor has a full Mistral engine.
But the new full body work Raptor is doing rather well for itself.
I would prefer to see J.R. in a car a little less naked given recent hill climb injuries.

Pity J.R. had to put the perspex cover on.. J.R. Happy feet going up Doune is an awesome peice of driving footage.

McB

jo white
16-09-09, 20:43
Simple, just wrap the Ghost in cling film and its got bodywork.
Best not as some spoil sport will then say its a flexible aero aid.
Ive said before that some of the most innovative things come from grass roots motorsports and it should be aplauded.
Best i start building my next controversy

Sabrejet
16-09-09, 20:57
......so what to do about bikes without fairings?

jo white
16-09-09, 20:59
......so what to do about bikes without fairings?
Use leather hide

superstar
16-09-09, 21:08
Who protested it ? Someone who was beaten ? :rolleyes:

iranoff
16-09-09, 21:33
No one has, so far its paddock gossip. I have been phoning all over today including a man in a motorhome in Glencoe.

Can you imagine someone forking out the protest fee with the risk of losing it if its rejected (said one of the Scots I spoke to today) :D

Mike_E
16-09-09, 21:40
Would an Ariel Atom fall foul of this rule, or would it get away with it because it's a production car?

YingYingVroomVroom
16-09-09, 21:47
The car is SCOTTISH and so as a real Scot it should be "naked".

If they want to be really really silly Will Hall's Force has no 'bodywork'. Sure it has a carbon tub and a nosecone, but it has no bodywork.

I think I might just run my Jedi at Doune without bodywork!!!

YYVV

iranoff
16-09-09, 21:48
The car is SCOTTISH and so as a real Scot it should be "naked".

If they want to be really really silly Will Hall's Force has no 'bodywork'. Sure it has a carbon tub and a nosecone, but it has no bodywork.

I think I might just run my Jedi at Doune without bodywork!!!

YYVV


Approve! :D

FJW1
17-09-09, 09:00
If they want to be really really silly Will Hall's Force has no 'bodywork'. Sure it has a carbon tub and a nosecone, but it has no bodywork.


YYVV

Yes but the tub is enclosed. the only way you can touch the driver is through the cockpot opening. I was once told the rough definition of bodywork is that you shouldnt be able to touch the driver other than through the cockpit.

Fact is that Jonathan has been lightning quick for many years, in 2004 he narrowly missed out on a 3 way championship in a 1ltr against a V8 snd a 2.8 Hart. I am sure bodywork wouldnt slow him down. But definatley make the car prettier, to be honest whilst Mark's workmanship is fantastic on the car....its not a looker really

SteveSlowboy
17-09-09, 09:26
I believe the protest came from the Championship Eligibility Scrutineer.

JR has circumvented this (and been accepted by the scrute) by gaffataping a piece of clear acrylic across the top of the frame from the dash panel down to the front pedal box bulkhead.

I have my own views on the this and my interpretation of the rules is also that this small piec of plastic fits the letter of the law.

Saying that, the floor, bodywork, engine cover and nose cover on my OMS weight in excess of 35kg, so the weight saving alone for JR would be worth it and definately gives an advantage.

Yes he's a very accomplished driver - and has just taken the Scottish Hillclimb Championship for the 4th year in a row, and yes it's a pretty standard spec busa engine so the times he puts in are impressive.

jedi088
17-09-09, 10:00
Ying Ying If your considering going naked at Doune be careful it can be cold around the Trossachs !!

James Williams
17-09-09, 10:31
I though the engine in the Ghost was a 1400cc 'Busa?

Fantastic car though. There are some nice features on it.

AllanMcD
17-09-09, 10:39
I dont know the speck but it dosn't sound/rev like mine and mine is standard.
Steve what is your bodywork made from 35KG :eek:
Allan

wee spooky
17-09-09, 12:26
Tempting as it is to leave this thread just to see where it goes I think I'd better intervene with some facts.

Firstly Steve a man of your experience should know better than to listen to rumours ...... unless it was one you started of course lol :D (joke!)

Ok in answer to the question no the Ghost has never been protested, is not subject to a current protest and as far as I know not going to be either.

What has happened is a well respected scrutineer pointed out a potential safety issue with the open area around my feet. He was under the impression that the appearance of nosecone was iminent but as time has gone by he then requested that something should be done to address the issue. As usual the blue book, as Paul quoted, is as vague as ever on the technical definitions of what is and is not bodywork and how much is required (The Ariel Atom being a fine example) and it would be an interesting "argument" if it ever were to go to a formal protest however that is not what this is about.

Back to the point, if a chief scrutineer asks me to change something on my car on the grounds of safety then I am certainly going to do as he asks. To do otherwise is just asking for trouble .... a bit like arguing with a policeman :) Ultimately the issue goes away as soon as we put the nosecone on however in the event we were not able to have the nosecone ready in time, and with the scrutineer's consent, we resolved the issue with the polycarbonate panels which you've seen recently.

As novel as it was to run the car "naked" it has not been by choice and I would apologise unreservedly if it has upset anyone in doing so. The bottom line is starting from scratch, with no base whatsoever, it takes a long long time to design, make the plugs, make the moulds and then make the bodypanels for a racing car ... and this is being done by Mark all in his spare time..... a task that I'm sure none of us would envy. It is by no means an easy or quick job and that is the only reason we've been running the car as you've seen it.

So to put the rumours to rest

There's no protest, from competitor, scrutineer or otherwise. The only issue was one of safety brought to my attention by a scrutineer who is now satisfied that that problem has been resolved and the Ghost is within the regulations. Furthermore the good news is the all being well the Ghost will appear at Doune with at least the beginnings of her new clothes ......... ;)

Jonathan

PS - You don't expect me to spend money on paint as well do you? ;)

Richard Dunn
17-09-09, 13:10
Hiya Wee Spooky!!

I want to see it at Doune as well. Will Hall and Eynon Price, Lee Adams and yerself. Now that is going to be good racing.

It is also good and in the spirit of the sport that no one had objected.

Regards

Richard

blackx
17-09-09, 13:16
Thanks for clearing that up JR...

FWIW I think it looks quite good "naked" :)

Steve Wilkinson
17-09-09, 13:52
Jonathan, thanks for taking the time to explain the situation. I am glad that the Ghost will be haunting Doune at the upcoming Championship Meeting.

:)

SteveSlowboy
17-09-09, 14:26
JR - sorry If i misunderstood our discussion at Alford.

I also am keen to see the ghost in it's finished state - paint or no paint! It's bound to help your aero at the faster venues as well, despite any weight penalty.

Roll on Doune - we're going to see some great competition between the BHC visitors and you and Lee (as well as Wallace, Brimsy and the Robbs in the big class).

wee spooky
17-09-09, 16:37
JR - sorry If i misunderstood our discussion at Alford.

No need to apologise Steve, the "joke" in my reply was aimed at Steve Wilkinson for starting the thread, not you for contributing to it. ....... too many steves me thinks :o

Jr

Steve Wilkinson
17-09-09, 18:07
No need to apologise Steve, the "joke" in my reply was aimed at Steve Wilkinson for starting the thread, not you for contributing to it. ....... too many steves me thinks :o

Jr

Sorry, didn't realise it was a joke!

I certainly didn't start the rumour just heard rumblings at Bo'ness although that might have been the steam railway or the lack of food!

:D

PS you can never have enough Stephens!

Scottish Billy
17-09-09, 20:07
Looking forward to seeing you al at Doune. Any chance of The Band playing at our haggis supper Jonathon?

SteveSlowboy
18-09-09, 13:38
Aye, come on JR - bring the guitar!

carl talbot
18-09-09, 18:46
PS - You don't expect me to spend money on paint as well do you? ;)

'They' didn't like my GRP without paint - but then maybe your competitors don't whinge as much :)