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guilleracing
27-11-09, 20:55
I am in the process of installing a K8 GSXR 1000 engine into my ADR Sport 2.


I have spent many hours on the net and on the phone trying to get the wiring sorted out properly for sensible money. I have an original loom that needs all of the un-needed wiring taking out and a new loom making up to run the engine.

Finally I think I have found a winner.

I know you will be shocked to know this is a company based in Washington in the United States of America.

I live on Guernsey in the Channel Islands. The cost of sending (by post) the loom to America was 35.00. I actually sent it "next day delivery" with Fedex for 60.00.

Yes it took 20 hours to be delivered having travelled 4818miles to get there!


I have 5 different quotes from British specialists all of whom want 600.00 or more for what i want to have produced.

George Dean Racing Engines in the US will deal with all the un-needed wiring and produce a nice quality product, and a wiring loom diagram to follow as well as labelling up all the connections for you.

The cost of slimming down the original loom and producing a ready to use race spec loom is 211.00.

From what I can find out on US forums, GDRE have supplied looms to about 70-80% of the bike engined car market in the US.

Can anyone beat that with a genuine company product?

I would be surprised if they can.

Bunman
28-11-09, 03:37
Nice one matey, it pays to scratch around thats for sure.
I had some tubular pushrods made some years ago for my X/flow out of C moly tube with hardened ends.
One off's and they cost me 88.00 delivered.!!

Blondie
28-11-09, 09:54
Greg - Z Cars did mine for 200 and they turned it around and back to me in a day!

Alternatively I was speaking to Jos Goodyear the other day and that's what the whiz kid does to my surprise.

Craig Powers
28-11-09, 13:08
I am in the process of installing a K8 GSXR 1000 engine into my ADR Sport 2.


I have spent many hours on the net and on the phone trying to get the wiring sorted out properly for sensible money. I have an original loom that needs all of the un-needed wiring taking out and a new loom making up to run the engine.

Finally I think I have found a winner.

I know you will be shocked to know this is a company based in Washington in the United States of America.

I live on Guernsey in the Channel Islands. The cost of sending (by post) the loom to America was 35.00. I actually sent it "next day delivery" with Fedex for 60.00.

Yes it took 20 hours to be delivered having travelled 4818miles to get there!


I have 5 different quotes from British specialists all of whom want 600.00 or more for what i want to have produced.

George Dean Racing Engines in the US will deal with all the un-needed wiring and produce a nice quality product, and a wiring loom diagram to follow as well as labelling up all the connections for you.

The cost of slimming down the original loom and producing a ready to use race spec loom is 211.00.

From what I can find out on US forums, GDRE have supplied looms to about 70-80% of the bike engined car market in the US.

Can anyone beat that with a genuine company product?

I would be surprised if they can.

Modern engine ECU's are very complex (lots of pins on connector!) and we had a devil of a job getting a GSXR1000 engine to run properly off the bike. We had to fit dummy resistors etc in lieu of various solenoids and valves to cheat the ECU into think that the devices were still fitted. We got there eventually. That sounds like a good price to me.

dennis.doyle
28-11-09, 13:24
Interesting, especially wrt the real costs of any modern engine swop regardless of whether it involves car, bike, saloon, sports or open-wheeled. Seems I need to factor several more hundred quid into my daydreams.

Blondie
28-11-09, 13:29
Modern engine ECU's are very complex (lots of pins on connector!) and we had a devil of a job getting a GSXR1000 engine to run properly off the bike. We had to fit dummy resistors etc in lieu of various solenoids and valves to cheat the ECU into think that the devices were still fitted. We got there eventually. That sounds like a good price to me.

Really???? Well my K6 gixa we had no problems at all - once we had reconnected the crank shaft sensor that had been accidently cut off (not by us!!!) it runs fine and has done all year. And we added in my stack system and quick shifter too.

guilleracing
28-11-09, 13:31
Hello again,

The same chap who is doing the wiring loom also sells engines.

He does engines for a sports racing car series in America. I am yet to see what his prices are but the power figures are impressive. For example, Suzuki GSXR 750 with a turbo. 274.8 HP at the crank @12,000 RPM This would be a nice engine for the up to 1100cc single seater class.

He does GSXR 1000 turbo engines as well! I think the power output will be interesting.

Greg.

Note.

The Suzuki GSXR 1000 K8 wiring loom has a number of electronic features related to the traction control for the original bike. There are three maps in the ECU to deal with differing weather conditions. One of these requires a sensor that reads the angle of the handle bars. If the ecu doesn't see this, the engine wont run properly. It also has electronics that engage if the bike falls over or you fall off. Finally the electronics deal with the noise the bike makes at certain speeds. All of these need to be removed and the ECU must think they are still there to run the engine.
In total about 60% of the original loom has to be removed.

And just think, the K9 engines are electronically much more complicated!

Blondie
28-11-09, 13:33
Hello again,

The same chap who is doing the wiring loom also sells engines.

He does engines for a sports racing car series in America. I am yet to see what his prices are but the power figures are impressive. For example, Suzuki GSXR 750 with a turbo. 274.8 HP at the crank @12,000 RPM This would be a nice engine for the up to 1100cc single seater class.

He does GSXR 1000 turbo engines as well! I think the power output will be interesting.

Greg.

Personally I'd stick to the lovely Malcolm at Yorkshire Engines - he's the man to get engines off. He races sidecars and knows exactly about bike engines and he's very helpful if you need advice.

Think of the cost involved too in phoning America for advice. I know you could email but that could get very complicated, it's far easier to chat on a phone! lol

Craig Powers
28-11-09, 13:46
Really???? Well my K6 gixa we had no problems at all - once we had reconnected the crank shaft sensor that had been accidently cut off (not by us!!!) it runs fine and has done all year. And we added in my stack system and quick shifter too.

Modern GSXR1000 (K8?)

Example....steering damper solenoid. ECU expects to see this load. I think it needs this for 'sports mode'.

There is very little definite info out there because most people use the engines in bikes. Leave off such extra devices at your peril....the ECU could go to a detuned map. The Suzuki Gizzer forum was a great help.

There were valves on the exhaust too; to do with emissions. Due to the custom exhaust we had to cheat the ECU into thinking that this valve was fitted.

It was a bit of a nightmare. The ECU probably has over 80 pins in the connector. My Dyna 2000 has about 8 (guess) although that's ignition only.

Craig

Blondie
28-11-09, 13:52
Modern GSXR1000 (K8?)

Example....steering damper solenoid. ECU expects to see this load. I think it needs this for 'sports mode'.

There is very little definite info out there because most people use the engines in bikes. Leave off such extra devices at your peril....the ECU could go to a detuned map. The Suzuki Gizzer forum was a great help.

There were valves on the exhaust too; to do with emissions. Due to the custom exhaust we had to cheat the ECU into thinking that this valve was fitted.

It was a bit of a nightmare. The ECU probably has over 80 pins in the connector. My Dyna 2000 has about 8 (guess) although that's ignition only.

Craig

I know what you mean and there's the side stand engine cut out wire and ignition to be cut off and I'm sure many more! I think there are lots of different ways in adapting the looms as a force I race against has the actual ignition barrel and key in the car! So it wont start without the key being in and on. Mine however is on the button. This is as technical as I go I'm afraid.

Well all I can say is I I'm sure the experts know what they're doing!

Craig Powers
28-11-09, 14:07
I know what you mean and there's the side stand engine cut out wire and ignition to be cut off and I'm sure many more! I think there are lots of different ways in adapting the looms as a force I race against has the actual ignition barrel and key in the car! So it wont start without the key being in and on. Mine however is on the button. This is as technical as I go I'm afraid.

Well all I can say is I I'm sure the experts know what they're doing!

The side stand / clutch lever interlock is fairly standard on bikes, even on my old ZZR motors and its the first thing to defeat when doing a new loom.

Then there are anti theft devices, such as the grey wire on the ZZR D series ECU's. This expects to see a voltage dropping resistor that is inside the ign switch. These things are not publicised for obvious reasons. I spent 200+ on Dyna 2000 whereas I could have spent 2p at Maplin if I had that knowledge.

But the modern ECU's, well they are in a league of their own. Number of pins, fault codes, ..... boy its a fun wait to waste a week.

Rev. Barry W ended up buying a diagnostic switch from Suzuki that plugs into a connector on the loom. It gives access to loads of extra fault codes. It was invaluable. We got his engine erunning eventually using the standard dash so that we could access the diagnostics.

Craig

guilleracing
28-11-09, 14:34
Yes.

If you have a standard dash and a fault reader, sorting out the dozen or so faults you will flag up when you start trimming. ome of the faults can be avoided if you leave a lot of the loom in. However this is heavy and if you don't get any use out of it you should just cut it out.

The Gixxer forum has a list of the fault codes. There are lots.

The one thing you don't want to do with the K8 engine is to get it to drop into the full wet map. Instant 30 HP or so loss!

Mr Dean over in America and I have been discussing the different ECUs available. He is going to run up an America engine with my ECU. I will post the results. American fuel is different in different regions and more power may be available just by changing the stock ECU.

Just in case you are interested, George Dean Racing Engines can be found here (http://www.georgedeanracing.com/).

Greg.

Rob Way
10-12-09, 23:02
It's really not that tricky once you gather all your info.

Decided to do mine myself 2006 R6 and glad I did as I now know it inside out.

I am am on my third itteration of taping it though. To be honest as long as you dont have to lengthen the major connections and you can read a wiring diagram you shouldn't have too much trouble. It's all about knowing what to leave and what to remove.

Mine worked first time, and has been fine all season.

Just re-did the lengths to get it inside the cockpit the other week, only took an hour.

Best bit is I saved myself 200.

I used the original clocks for the diganostic which is really helpfull and saves money on expensive rev counters.

Just my 2p

Rob

Filmstar
11-12-09, 09:20
I did my own for a Busa engine, it cost 10p for resistors put in place of some of the sensors, oh plus lots of tape.

Rob Stevens
11-12-09, 16:09
To be honest you may as well ditch the standard ecu and get a stand alone one !

AllanMcD
11-12-09, 16:35
To be honest you may as well ditch the standard ecu and get a stand alone one !
Why ?
Allan

guilleracing
11-12-09, 19:14
Why would you get rid of the original ECU. The manufacturer spent millions of dollars making it work.

More over, if it fails, you can find them easily in sites like BTDBTDBTDBTD.

If you buy an aftermarket ECU you will gain nothing but extra work and hassle.

In my experience they are not reliable, the support outside mainland England is non existant and they are overpriced in comparison to a secondhand and easily available, quality OE part from the manufacturer.

I wouldn't use an aftermarket ECU for anything more demanding than a fishing weight!!!!


There now thats off my chest, I can go back to my dinner!

Craig Powers
11-12-09, 22:07
To be honest you may as well ditch the standard ecu and get a stand alone one !


yes, an aftermarket ECU makes wiring simpler but there can be complications such as diferent crank triggers, and dealing with possible incompatible sensors.

Plus the budget for rolling road time to be sure that the map is correctly set up and the sensor calibration is correct.

Based upon our GSXR 1000 experience I would go for the standard ECU on the basis of cost & overall ease.

Perhaps with a Power Commander unit to dial out flat spots etc.

Craig Powers

AllanMcD
11-12-09, 22:24
If you are racing (like most of us) a power commander is a must it uses the stock (ecu) map and just tweaks it a bit its easy to set up on a dyno.
I am going dyno playing Monday so I will let you know how I get on tuned 1340cc busa hoping for 210-230 bhp.
Allan
Ps if you dont run the stock air box it will never run right without a powercommander

AllanMcD
14-12-09, 16:58
Heres my dyno chart

http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=257

188.6 bhp at the wheels 208.7bhp at the flywheel.
Allan

DaveK
14-12-09, 18:36
Allan

As a matter of interest whats the engine spec and what car is it in ?

Dave

AllanMcD
14-12-09, 18:48
1340cc K8 Busa
13.5:1 compression
Kent race cams
Gas flowed
basically a full engine tune inc ballance crank, rods ,pistons etc
Fitted to a Z-Cars mini.
Allan

guilleracing
16-12-09, 15:42
My wiring loom has been completed and is on its way back to me.


Interestingly back to back tests have shown the Euro/UK spec ECU makes 1 more HP than the US on the same spec motor! ( On American race legal fuel.)


Greg.

DaveK
17-12-09, 11:36
1340cc K8 Busa
13.5:1 compression
Kent race cams
Gas flowed
basically a full engine tune inc ballance crank, rods ,pistons etc
Fitted to a Z-Cars mini.
Allan

Thats similar power to a 1397cc early motor with big valve head, the later head on the K8 is supposed to make 15bhp more than the earlier engines back to back, should make for an interesting drive :D

Dave