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ancillotti rob
19-05-10, 09:20
Good morning
There are a few questions i would like a bit of help with.

1:I am currently studying towards a degree in Horticulture. After i finish i am tempted to do a part time 2 year course in race car engineering or similar. This is not for any career change, it is simply for fun as i wish to build my own car some time in the future. The first thing i did is picked up Tony Pashleys book which was superb and a lot of help. I hope to build a car for class I racing cars over 600-1100. In that category there are a few different materials used. As a relative amateur i have decided to make a space framed car, as this means less of an outlay on tools and materials. At the last prescott round i was looking at a lot of the cars in class i and a fair few had carbon tubs etc. I was looking at the Martlet As1 of the Steel family and it appeared to be a space frame car, i may well be wrong but it certainly looked it. This suprised me as the record time set by that car 38.88 was quicker than very exotic and carbon tubbed cars, which i can only presume is down to good construction and a very very fast driver. Even more shocking was when i compared that time to the class above, Class J2 with a record time of 38.13.

2: I have also been looking at the empire racing cars web site and the construction mentioned on there is a tubular frame rapped in carbon, what is the benefit of this?. Also with cars like the force Pc is this just a stand alone carbon tub without the above method.?

3: I am thinking of buying an ultra cheap single seater mid summer as ive decided against hillclimbing my road car as i plan to sell it fairly soon and dont want to damage it. I hope this will give me experiance of running a car in class i and set up etc. i have seen a car for just under 4000 in scotland and thought this may be a fair place to start.

Thanks in advance for replies, i have to go and study horticulture again now.
Cheers Rob

Alpinepg
19-05-10, 09:41
Why dont you combine horticulture and racecar design by growing your own? Either that or make one from things youve grown!

On a more serious note...the under 4000 single seater would seem good but the way the market is at the minute you would need to be certain you could afford to keep it because it can be quite hard to sell single seaters at the minute.....as you will see if you look through the sales pages. You would also need to check out the condition of the tyres as a set of suitable slicks will set you back the best part of a grand if the ones on it are shot.
As for steel frame vs carbon tub...carbon tub is better if done well and its lighter, but a lot of the performance is down to the driver. A great driver in a steel car will beat an average/poor driver in a carbon car. I beat several carbon tubbed cars in my old Hawke formula ford conversion...and I am only average (some people may now pop up and say poor or near suicidal...they are exagerating!!!)...it just that some people have money and want a nice day out rather than a nail biting near death experience.

Rescue Dude
19-05-10, 09:45
Why dont you combine horticulture and racecar design by growing your own? Either that or make one from things youve grown!


A bit like this (http://www.the-mia.com/Environ-MENTAL--The-WorldFirst-root-vegetable-F3-car) one?

Teaboy
19-05-10, 11:12
A bit like this (http://www.the-mia.com/Environ-MENTAL--The-WorldFirst-root-vegetable-F3-car) one?

Hopefully not, they tried to race it with our championship last year brough a tv production company and evrything, unfortunatly i think it did 3 laps before it went terminally broken, and ive not heard of it since.

Cheers

Rich

SteveSlowboy
19-05-10, 21:10
Rob,

A carbon tub car should be stiffer than a space-frame - but not necessarily lighter! (Though in all honesty most are). Home repair of a steel space frame is easier and possible for most with access to welding kit - whilst not many folk have an autoclave in their garage to repair a carbon tub.
Panelling a steel space frame with carbon honeycomb (if bonded and riveted to the steel) is bound to improve the stiffness of a space frame but at the expense of a tiny bit of weight - I suppose it depends how well it is done. The alloy skins on most steel space frame cars is pretty thin and therefore not that heavy. A proper pre-preg honeycomb carbon sheet will be a similar weight and much stiffer, but cheaper wet lay-up bling carbon sheet won't be.
I'm not totally ontop of the various Force chassis - some are all carbon tub but the earlier ones are part alloy honeycomb and part carbon. hopefully someone else will come in with details.

Though it would be ace to build your own chassis, with the price of older space frame single seaters (especially in the 600 or 1100cc classes) being quite low, you'd be nuts not to just buy one of those - either to drive as-is or to strip for all those very useful parts such as uprights (and all the brake kit), steering racks etc.


Or go and speak to Dermot - I'm sure he'd help you put together a kit of bits to make an interesting car!!!!!!

Steve

Craig Powers
19-05-10, 23:02
3: I am thinking of buying an ultra cheap single seater mid summer as ive decided against hillclimbing my road car as i plan to sell it fairly soon and dont want to damage it. I hope this will give me experiance of running a car in class i and set up etc. i have seen a car for just under 4000 in scotland and thought this may be a fair place to start.

Thanks in advance for replies, i have to go and study horticulture again now.
Cheers Rob

I would buy a car, drive it, learn its quirks and therefore learn how to do it better. You will have tremendous fun in the meantime, meet great people, and the lessons learned will probably save you a fortune later.

You may find that maintaining and running a car is rewarding and time consuming enough.

As regards designing your own, Tony Pashley's book (if I recall correctly) is a very good practical guide with lots of excellent photos on how to do it, how to package it, but was a bit scant on the why's; the theory. So it should be read in conjunction with other books, perhaps Carroll Smith's or Allan Staniforth's.

Talk to owners about their cars, what they like, what they dislike.

Some advice I was once given....
If you build a car from scratch and don't have much room then don't necessarily build the chassis first. Perhaps do some of the smaller more intensive jobs. e.g. IF making your own uprights then they will soak up hours of work and will not take up any room when finished. Big assemblies can be false indicators of real progress.

Have fun.

Craig Powers
OMS 1100

Tanky
19-05-10, 23:09
Big assemblies can be false indicators of real progress.




I like that...

Craig Powers
19-05-10, 23:11
I like that...

Yes, not quite his words.....

I think he said...."I kept tripping over that <expletive> chassis for 5 years".