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Sabrejet
01-07-10, 19:38
Excuse a relative newbie asking, but can anyone suggest a suitable ECU for the Yamaha R6 engine (2005 model)?

We'd looked at Megasquirt, but get conflicting messages regarding the problem of noise. I can't see why this SHOULD be a problem because the stock R6 loom to the coil (individual coil-on-plugs) looks like standard, unshielded wiring and if it's OK for the standard ECU, why should noise be a problem with Megasquirt?

Also other ECUs (Canems for instance) don't seem to refer to bike applications and/or are wasted-spark.

Would appreciate any pointers.

TIA

dennis.doyle
01-07-10, 19:55
Difficult to believe this is a specific R6 or Megasquirt issue. Wouldn't putting any ECU into an aluminium box be enough to keep stray voltages on the outside? But really that's a question to the electronics people.

Brib
01-07-10, 21:50
What are you putting the engine in?
High frequency vibration might be an issue too.
You don't have the standard ecu, I guess. Power commander on it for fuel.
MBE might be worth a look, depends what you need and what you want to spend.
Do you expect to have standard cams? Want to change ignition timing?

Be aware of RPM limits too, you need something to go well into the teens of thousands of rpm.

Sabrejet
02-07-10, 16:01
Brib,

Looking to run it as standard initially (barring a shaved sump), but we realised that wasted spark won't necessarily cope with the rpm we need from a bike engine. It's going in a much-modified FVL chassis.

Ideally we'd like to be able to do it for the price of a Megasquirt, but we just cannot get a straight answer on if it will run on a coil-on-plug bike engine such as the R6.

Will take a look at your suggestions too. Ideally we wanted to do it for less than the 3,000 that has been mooted, but we'd also like it to be somewhat less than 'plug and play', so that we can get a better understanding of what the thing is actually doing and an insight into how we can tailor it too............:o

dennis.doyle
02-07-10, 17:57
I stick to what I said about knowing almost nothing about ECUs but I’d like to learn from this ‘cos I’ve got one. It’s:

Weber Alpha;
2 coil packs over plugs + 2 leads & wasted spark like many car engines from the 90’s;
basically a roadgoing car engine; &
it sits in an aluminium box.

It works fine - but only when I put the 2 leads on the right plugs:)
It’s rev limited to 7,200, but why would wasted spark cause problems at higher revs - the wasted spark only fires when flaming gasses are shooting out the exhaust?

My points/questions are:

Don’t get hung up over bike/car differences unless you can get an explanation of how they differ in ways relevant to ECUs.
Get an explanation of in what way wasted spark might be a problem before ditching it & then please tell me:).

Joshua
03-07-10, 12:56
MBE seem to be used a lot on bike engines in the UK plus if I'm not mistaken the DTA S60 will work with the sequential spark and injector system on bike engines.

Why not buy its own ecu and add a power commander? or do you want to have a fully adjustable unit?

Sabrejet
03-07-10, 13:27
Yes,

Ideally fully adjustable, though the 'standard ECU + Power Commander' route is still an option. Ideally I think we just wanted the ability to take all the unneccessary sensors off it and maybe be able to look at launch control, flat shift etc in future. I don't think any of those options would be available with Power Commander.

Joshua
03-07-10, 13:34
yep, if you want to have those adjustable options then its best to go for a standalone ecu. Most modern ones have data logging, launch control, flat shift options etc.

Give SPD motorsport a ring, I'm sure they can help. They offer the MBE units if I'm not mistaken.

YingYingVroomVroom
03-07-10, 17:10
Yes,

Ideally fully adjustable, though the 'standard ECU + Power Commander' route is still an option. Ideally I think we just wanted the ability to take all the unneccessary sensors off it and maybe be able to look at launch control, flat shift etc in future. I don't think any of those options would be available with Power Commander.

Hi,

All those things are available with Power Commander plus much much more.
Ignition Mapping, Raising/lowering Rev. Limit., "Stutter Box", Switchable Mapping. Boost Refferencing (with Forced Induction), Data Logging.....
Cars that I have remapped using Power Commander and Tuning Link on our Dynojet now hold 3 Outright Lap Records on UK Circuits. If you look on hills the quickest Bike Engined Cars tend to be using a Power Commander.
It is also by far the cheapest route to give you an idea we supply, fit and map to near perfection on our Dynojet a P.C.3 USB for only 499. Why go with anything else?? Especially if you are on a budget.

Give me a call (at work) 01527 577710
Hamish.

Sabrejet
03-07-10, 20:30
Hamish. Many thanks. Will do!

Joshua
03-07-10, 22:51
Hi,

All those things are available with Power Commander plus much much more.
Ignition Mapping, Raising/lowering Rev. Limit., "Stutter Box", Switchable Mapping. Boost Refferencing (with Forced Induction), Data Logging.....
Cars that I have remapped using Power Commander and Tuning Link on our Dynojet now hold 3 Outright Lap Records on UK Circuits. If you look on hills the quickest Bike Engined Cars tend to be using a Power Commander.
It is also by far the cheapest route to give you an idea we supply, fit and map to near perfection on our Dynojet a P.C.3 USB for only 499. Why go with anything else?? Especially if you are on a budget.

Give me a call (at work) 01527 577710
Hamish.

You mention Data logging......for mapping, any datalogging thats of any use will give you AFR. Please explain how a power commander can data log when it doesnt use a lampda sensor?

I run a supercharged Kawasaki ZX14 engine in my car & I am using the Power commander 5. After buying the PCV from Dynojet and after supercharging the engine I needed to buy the ignition module to be able to play around with the ignition map only to find that dynojet didnt have one available. So I ended up having to buy the MSD SB6 which allows you to adjust the ignition map. So now one side of the car looks like a power station with piggy back over piggy back and the amount of wireing is mad!

My advise is if you just want to clean up the fuel map, buy a power commander. If you want to fully adjust all parameters and data log go with a stand alone ECU, you will save money, wireing & weight.

YingYingVroomVroom
07-07-10, 18:15
You mention Data logging......for mapping, any datalogging thats of any use will give you AFR. Please explain how a power commander can data log when it doesnt use a lampda sensor?

I run a supercharged Kawasaki ZX14 engine in my car & I am using the Power commander 5. After buying the PCV from Dynojet and after supercharging the engine I needed to buy the ignition module to be able to play around with the ignition map only to find that dynojet didnt have one available. So I ended up having to buy the MSD SB6 which allows you to adjust the ignition map. So now one side of the car looks like a power station with piggy back over piggy back and the amount of wireing is mad!

My advise is if you just want to clean up the fuel map, buy a power commander. If you want to fully adjust all parameters and data log go with a stand alone ECU, you will save money, wireing & weight.

Hi Joshua,

Your Kawasaki is a bit different!!
I will agree that Motec would possibly be your best option but it will certainly be the most expensive.

Power Commander can Data Log AFR if you expand your system with Wide Band Commander. I'm slightly puzzled why you didn't use Igition Commander as all the 'boxes' are the same it is only the plugs that differ for the various applications so you could have cut and soldered, like you will have done with the MSD Unit.
My own car (Jedi Suzuki GSXR1000) has 8 Control modules (Suzuki ECM, PC3 USB, Ign. Commander, Wide Band Comm, Geartronics, ProBTDBTDBTDBTD Gearbox Controller, Auto Blip Controller, AIM Datalogger) and it certainly doesn't look like a power station ! All the wiring is neat and tidy. The biggest module is the same size and weight as a 'Packet of Fags' and some of the modules are smaller and lighter than a box of matches. Power Commander in conjuction with a Dynojet Rolling Road can do a lot more than just clean up a fuel map.

We are involved in a Turbo Charged Radical Busa that runs in Castle Coombe Endurance races, very successfully this is re mapped and set up with Power Commander, Ignition Commander, and Wide Band Commander. This runs at relatively low boost of upto 12 psi and still produces alot more power than I have seen out of the supercharger kits.
My feelings/experience is that most people probably don't need to spend on a Motec system. Power Commander is more than capable and probably more capable than most of the standalone systems!!

Joshua, give us a call if you need Dynojet/Power Commander help. I would love to see a Maltese Hillclimb next time I'm in Malta. (I met my wife while I was working in Malta 18 years ago.)

Regards,
Hamish.

DaveK
08-07-10, 08:57
Hi,

If you look on hills the quickest Bike Engined Cars tend to be using a Power Commander.


maybe in the lower classes but the 1600cc top runners are using MBE's 992 or 9a4 ecu
I don't doubt that the PC can acheive the right results but doesn't it make sense to have an ECU in 1 box that controls everything.

megari
08-07-10, 10:17
Just been through this with a turbo busa. Choose to use a DTA S80 in place of stock+piggy back (for 2nd fuel rail)+PC+DL1, partly to simplify and partly to get additional features like launch, TC, single warning light etc. Did look closely at MBE but cost was slightly higher and assistance/information was harder to find. So far think it's turned out well for me but of course millage varies.

Another option I have seen for a more standard install is a 'bike interceptor', no direct experience but might be worth looking at.