Engine regs swapping engines

[AndyWarren]

I'm still debating on whether to drop from modprod(3b) to roadgoing(1b) next year but I think the question applies to both classes:

Does the following..

"The engine block must be externally identifiable
as that fitted to the original model or specified option"

Mean I could swap my Saxo VTR 1.6 8v engine with a 1.6 16v engine from the VTS model..

I'm guessing that specific model refers to the Saxo rather than VTR,VTS etc..

Any help appreciated.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by AndyWarren

I'm guessing that specific model refers to the Saxo rather than VTR,VTS etc..

Most on here will take your view that it refers to Saxo, and not only for the engine regs.

However, I suspect the intention is the exact model.

The argument goes that the "VTR-GTI-superfast-cosworth" model was fitted with a more powerful engine than the "ECO" model, it would also have come as standard with upgraded brakes, suspension etc. Just swapping a more powerful engine into a lower spec model could result in an unsafe car.
This certainly is the view that car insurers take and no doubt also the insurers of the MSA.

[AndyWarren]

Ahh that makes sense, many thanks.

[kevham]

I'm afraid I don't agree with SportsLibre on this. The model is, by any normal definition, 'Saxo'. Check your MOT certificate or V5 for confirmation of this.

I would say that VTR/VTS/Furio/Desire etc are all different variants of the Saxo model and so you can fit any Saxo engine in any Saxo variant and still comply with the blue book.

In any case, are the Saxo VTR/VTS blocks (TU5) not the same anyway and its just the head that is different?

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Radical

Most on here will take your view that it refers to Saxo.

As I said. My view will be a small minority and unless someone asks the specific question to the MSA it will probably remain so. Despite the obvious insurance based logic.

It suits most people to read it in that way as they have already modified their base model with performance parts that weren't on it when produced.

The operative word is that it is a "production" class not a "road" category.

Fell free to ignore me as no-one will protest, as they will nearly all have done the same thing.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by AndyWarren

"The engine block must be externally identifiable
as that fitted to the original model or specified option"

Mean I could swap my Saxo VTR 1.6 8v engine with a 1.6 16v engine from the VTS model..

Originally Posted by kevham

The model is, by any normal definition, 'Saxo'. Check your MOT certificate or V5 for confirmation of this.

I would say that VTR/VTS/Furio/Desire etc are all different variants of the Saxo model and so you can fit any Saxo engine in any Saxo variant and still comply with the blue book.

In any case, are the Saxo VTR/VTS blocks (TU5) not the same anyway and its just the head that is different?

I think you will find that an MoT certificate or V5 will say Escort for the Mk 1, Mk 2 and Mk 3 variants. I understand that should you put a more modern engine from a Mk 3 into a Mk 1 this would not be allowed in Roadgoing or Mod Prod and would see the car slotted into Sports Libre. However I personally do not agree with the MSA on this point as I believe that this draconian stance does not encourage people on limited budgets to get involved in our element of motor sport.

[CNHSS1]

given that blocks like the ford pinto and xflow have been made and bolted into all and sundry on fords production line for generations it seems, i cant see how its even possible to prove what year, let alone era they come from. I suppose you could check engine serial numbers but scrutineering would take until wednesday morning!

I think a sensible view should be taken, and i suspect in reality is already, by the scrutes. A zetec in a escort mk2 is taking the michael, but a 3 year newer pinto than was bolted in from Dagenham seems acceptable to me.

apologies to OP, not up on Pug/Citroen motors, but same theory would apply.

are BMC A series and A+ visually the same by the way?

[Rob Stevens]

A+ has some external extra bracing on the block, like a criss cross of little webs somewhere but I can't remember where.

[grahamb]

The chap with the £6500 Crossflow powered mk1 Escort on Sunday, was quite tempted when I suggested he sell it and stick a 2.0 Duratec in the engine bay, and join me in Sports Libre. He spent most of the event worrying about oil pressures and water temps.

[redturner37]

Originally Posted by Rob Stevens

A+ has some external extra bracing on the block, like a criss cross of little webs somewhere but I can't remember where.

very early A series had 'windows' in the side of the block where the tappets are. Pinto have 2 0 or 201 cast into the block and they are known to have been modified with an angle grinder. FF 2000 are now allowed to use the later 201 blocks because of the shortage of the 2 0 blocks...