Problem for Road Modified Classes

[Rescue Dude]

Originally Posted by SteveM

I still think its all about getting roll cages into all modified cars, to cover the msa if there is an accident.

I got a cage i just don't want to go into mod prod against Pikey and Mr Peril.

[SteveM]

May be there could be a "road modified" class within mod prods, that has to be road legal, with trim and 1a tyres? kinda like the regs already used for "road modified"

[Radical]

Originally Posted by SteveM

May be there could be a "road modified" class within mod prods, that has to be road legal, with trim and 1a tyres? kinda like the regs already used for "road modified"

As long as the cars comply with all the modification rules and extra safety regs of the modified class, catagory, (belts cage etc.) there is nothing stopping clubs and championships adding extra restrictions to classes such as road tax , mot, road tyres etc.

The MSA rules (from 2010) mandate the categories, not the class structure within those categories.

It has already been sugested to run a "road Libre" class for road legal cars such as zetec fiestas which under the MSA rules must run as sports libre category due to the engine swap.

[redturner37]

Originally Posted by Radical

note that the current Blue book does not contain the rule changes "published" and to come in ....

as you saw "not worth doing" that is the point of the regulation, they don'y want you to modify anything.

remember the overriding FIA rule, "if it is not explicitly allowed, then it is NOT allowed"

The actual wording is. 'If it doesn't say you can, then you can't'. So why do people always seem to miss this bit. Seems that if someone does it, then others think, well if he can do it, then I can, and we finish up with a situation that starts to backfire.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

After a swift exchange of emails may I just point out that:

a) No championships will be forced to use MSA classes ever (because there aren't any!).
b) No championships will be forced to use MSA categories in 2009 (they do not become mandatory till 2010)

Hope that helps to clear the air!

I am including my previous post as some people are still incapable of differentiating between class and category.

May I suggest to everyone who is genuinely concerned to get in touch with the Speed Events Committee. I would also advise writing to each member of the committee rather than a general letter. In the letter I would suggest that you ......

(a) express your concerns.
(b) seek clarification as to why it appears that cars legal in 2008 will become illegal in 2010.
(c) request a clarification on terminology with respect to "Standard", "Road Modified", "Configuration" and allowable alterations.

After all it is the Speed Events Committee who actually write the regulations so they are the FINAL arbiters.

[Rescue Dude]

I have contacted the MSA to clarify what i see as a very important question.
If they enforce all these rules to the letter then in 2010.......will i still be Rescue dude or will i have to go through the expense of changing my name.



Sorry. carry on.

[red21]

I thought the idea of the proposed changes were to standardise the base classes, so no matter where you go and compete standard road going etc are covered by the same rules and you compete against cars of a similar nature.!!

[The Pugilist]

I have 100% sympathy with Russell & the rest of the "Road Mod" guys (& girls)

The suspension paragraph (I80)for "Road-Going Production" cars states "The suspension configuration must remain standard". It states nothing else.

By using the "'If it doesn't say you can, then you can't'" ruling, no one can change anything! This is NOT the intention of the MSA (I have discussed a slightly different point in the past with them). It is clear that simply referring to I80 is not enough.


It is clear that 1 of 2 things is required to completley resolve this situation;

1. The MSA need to be more specific within I80 (as they are in I99-101 for Mod Prod) and potentially include the "accepted" supllementary regs with maybe some ammendments

2. The organising clubs of championships / events need to get together as was done some time back to have a consistent approach for the supplementary regs that clarifies what can and cannot be done re "suspension"

That said, my personal view is that "adjustable top mounts" with spherical bearings in them should be allowed, but spherical bearings in other components eg rose jointed wishbones should not) No real place on a road car)

I have a list of what I would propose as I currently run in a race champ that uses very sensible regs on this matter.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by redturner37

I can fully sympathise with any one who is running a car with long established modifications and they are suddenly going to have to change things drastically, but the first post on this thread clearly indicated that the author wanted to carry out a modification which clearly isn't allowed, and he seems rather disgruntled. I can have no sympathy at all with these kind of mods, so if you dont like the way the system is run, go to a class where mods are allowed or are totally forbidden. An easy route would be to buy a Formula Ford, no mods at all.

The point is that in the supplimentry regs for the championships these modifications were allowed, and the cars were built to these regs. Now maybe we will have to rebuild the cars , more cost.

[RussellT]

OK things have become slightly clearer, having spent an hour with John Moxham rereading old Blue Books and having spoken to Chris seaman of BARC (Y) I can accept that not for the first time in my life I have been labouring under a misunderstanding.

The class of road modified has never been a Blue Book class but a local amendment to the Blue Book instigated and developed by BARC (Y) over the years and taken up by other local clubs. The allowable modifications are their rules not the MSA. I should have addressed my original question to Chris.

However it has brought to light the stark reality that the MSA missive that only MSA classes will be sanctioned from 2010 means that all road modified cars will have to either be returned to standard or progress to mod prod to be eligible for competition.

Looking at the LDMC events last year that represents over 40% of the entries. If a significant number of the present road modified classes decide not to bother this could signal a very bleak time for the clubs.