Saloon Libre

[fiestajohn]

What we have in Scotland is not really Saloon Libre, it is basically just Modified Saloons without the engine regs, so there are no "wacky racers" allowed.

I would love to see a proper Saloon Libre/Special Saloon class for all the weird and wonderful creations, its just if enough would turn up to make it worth while. At the same time I would also like to see the modified regs relaxed slightly so that things like my Scottish Saloon Libre class car (complies with all the modified regs but has a non standard fitment engine block) would be where they belong (in Modified).

Modified Saloons, Saloon Libre etc topics start on here every few months, surely its time for the MSA to take notice and make some changes.

[Alpinepg]

I think as long as the car has a basis on a road car (i.e. chassis available to the mass market) then it should be allowed. There is a big scene for people with engine swap cars who want to compete.

[windy]

If there is a possibility to run a seperate on the day class as saloon libre then I'll gladly support it. I think championship only points scoring classes are not the way forward. Spectators need to be able to easily distinguish the new class as a seperate on the day class from the existing sports libre.
The individual organising clubs should be able to run the new class at their events but it needs agreement from the start to encourage competitors like me to participate.
I still think there is some mileage in pursuing the non original engine block rule in mod prod.
I hope something gets sorted either way.
As it stands in rallying the MSA are actually banning some cars from 2012 so there are quite a few very pissed of people around at the moment. Some of you may remember a certain andrew Burton who appeared at Shelsley a couple of years ago in his Peugeot Cosworth to do some demo runs. This car is now banned by the MSA from competing in rallies.
If the new class can accomodate the banned rally cars there is a possibility for some wider support for the new class. It needs some prompt action though otherwise these cars are going to get broken into bits never to be seen again!

[Lolat492]

The only way this class will be supported will be fore there to be an actual class of them!

I could see the Impreza/Audi/Puma/EscortVaux car etc all aside each other and the whole class being very popular with spectators and competitors alike.

Why would you not run a class at any Champ event??

There is a chance that Libre (non Saloon) could be merged with the under 2 litres, but this and certainly last year that could have happened on many occation. I was alone in the Libre over 2 litre all 2010 unless Manning's Puma ran.

[grahamb]

On the day at an event I would want to run in a class with other saloon libres, which would create more interest and tempt more people out. Numbers in SL have declined, and its the same people at every event. I'd be happy to run in mod prod with a larger field, and of those I've spoken to, no one would object either.

[geetee]

The Midland Speed Championship committee agrees that the best situation would be for a Saloon Libre class to run at each event. However as championship organisers who don't run any of the events themselves, what they are doing is a first step to try to show that it would be worthwhile running dedicated classes for saloon Libres.
Hopefully drivers of such cars will in the first instance register for the MSC so that we will then have enough to persuade clubs to run a dedicated class. At £25 for membership/registration it is one of the lower cost national championships around.
With enough cars in the class it is possible that some clubs would be convinced enough by the idea to incorporate the class into events in 2012 but it does rely on the competitors demonstrating the will to support it.

[redturner37]

Originally Posted by grahamb

On the day at an event I would want to run in a class with other saloon libres, which would create more interest and tempt more people out. Numbers in SL have declined, and its the same people at every event. I'd be happy to run in mod prod with a larger field, and of those I've spoken to, no one would object either.

and what happens when some one with a V6 twin turbo car rolls up and blows you all into the weeds, back to square one. There will never be any agreement when people are allowed to do there own thing, there has to be rules and I suspect that the MSA know this and dont want the agro. Another consideration you have to make is, if this 'newly' formed class takes off, the organizers are going to have to refuse some one entry unless the event is poorly supported, so you may finish up with all the sports libres left locked up in the garage and that would be sad.....

[andylaurence]

Given that in half my events this year the Sports Libre classes were amalgamated, I find it unlikely there would be enough cars to support a further subdivision of the category. Also, whilst you may be happy that your engine-swapped car doesn't have to compete against Radicals, it won't matter much if someone turns up in an Audi TT sporting a V8 twin-turbo engine, for example, and blows you and the Radicals out of the water.

[grahamb]

So how does a space framed car fit in to saloon libre?
I'd be better off in ModProd.

[andylaurence]

What does fit into saloon libre? Anything based on the original production 'shell? There's some pretty impressive stuff out there that will beat the cars with not much more than an engine swap that would otherwise be in a production class.

Saloon Libre is a subset of the Sports Libre category. If not enough Sports Libre cars that don't fit into Saloon Libre turn up or not enough Saloon Libre cars turn up, then all the Sports Libre cars (saloon or not) will be bunched up into one class, in my (limited) experience, so the spaceframe cars will be up against the saloon cars in one (probably not very) big class. I've certainly competed against unlimited Sports Libre cars many times this year, despite the 999cc engine in the back of my car.