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  #1  
Old 03-10-17, 13:46
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MSA Rule Changes

Its a big document this time.

https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesoctober2017.pdf

Some relevant changes that appear to potentially affect us

FIRE EXTINGUISHERS

All new build from 01/01/2019, and all other existing vehicles from 01/01/2022 must carry a fire extinguisher to FIA 8865-2015

Minimum size
• AFFF 2.4 litres
• FireSense 2.4 litres
• FX G‐TEC 2.0 kg
• Viro3 2.0 kg
• Zero 360 2.0 kg
• Extreme 2.0 kg
• Powder 2.0 kg

So we've got plenty of time to get an extinguisher fitted


SELF STARTING

Date of implementation: 1 January 2019

10.3.3. Must be provided with a means of starting which does not involve push starting, or the use of external equipment or personnel, except in the case of force majeure, unless period defined or vehicles in possession of a Competition Car Log Book or Vehicle Passport prior to 31st December 2018.

10.3.3.1. Any connections to assist the starting of the car must be either in the drivers’ cockpit or at the tail of the car requiring a horizontal connection.

I think below is the gotcha with respect to the self starting above:

Any vehicle log booked from 1.1.19 will need a method of self starting.


Because Competition Car Log Books are being retired....


J2.1.6. Competition Car Log Books first issued prior to 1st January 2000 will expire on 31st December 2020.

CCLBs first issued between 1st January 2000 and 31st December 2004 inclusive will expire on 31st December 2022.

CCLBs first issued between 1st January 2005 and 31st December 2009 inclusive will expire on 31st December 2023.

All other CCLBs will expire on 31st December 2025.

Once a CCLB has expired a new Vehicle Passport will need to be applied for. Until the date of expiry a CCLB may continue to be returned to the MSA for amendment per 2.1.5.


So, I think that means, if your car isn't capable of self starting, AND your CCLB needs replacing, then you must get the new Vehicle Passport before 01/01/19

Otherwise, as time goes by and CCLB's expire, you will need to fit self starting in order to get a Vehicle Passport.
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Old 03-10-17, 14:02
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Self starting - not a big deal with lithium batteries not introducing a significant weight penalty, but fire extinguishers - total bureaucratic lunacy. The latest evidence that the blue blazers we pay are trying to kill off club motorsport, at the very least they can't be bothered to differentiate risk according to the motorsport disclipline.

I've competed in speed events for 30 ish years and have seen one fire in the paddock (quickly extinguished by competitors/marshals) and never while a vehicle is competing.
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Old 03-10-17, 14:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamb View Post
Its a big document this time.

https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesoctober2017.pdf

Some relevant changes that appear to potentially affect us

FIRE EXTINGUISHERS

All new build from 01/01/2019, and all other existing vehicles from 01/01/2022 must carry a fire extinguisher to FIA 8865-2015

Minimum size
• AFFF 2.4 litres
• FireSense 2.4 litres
• FX G‐TEC 2.0 kg
• Viro3 2.0 kg
• Zero 360 2.0 kg
• Extreme 2.0 kg
• Powder 2.0 kg

So we've got plenty of time to get an extinguisher fitted


SELF STARTING

Date of implementation: 1 January 2019

10.3.3. Must be provided with a means of starting which does not involve push starting, or the use of external equipment or personnel, except in the case of force majeure, unless period defined or vehicles in possession of a Competition Car Log Book or Vehicle Passport prior to 31st December 2018.

10.3.3.1. Any connections to assist the starting of the car must be either in the drivers’ cockpit or at the tail of the car requiring a horizontal connection.

I think below is the gotcha with respect to the self starting above:

Any vehicle log booked from 1.1.19 will need a method of self starting.


Because Competition Car Log Books are being retired....


J2.1.6. Competition Car Log Books first issued prior to 1st January 2000 will expire on 31st December 2020.

CCLBs first issued between 1st January 2000 and 31st December 2004 inclusive will expire on 31st December 2022.

CCLBs first issued between 1st January 2005 and 31st December 2009 inclusive will expire on 31st December 2023.

All other CCLBs will expire on 31st December 2025.

Once a CCLB has expired a new Vehicle Passport will need to be applied for. Until the date of expiry a CCLB may continue to be returned to the MSA for amendment per 2.1.5.


So, I think that means, if your car isn't capable of self starting, AND your CCLB needs replacing, then you must get the new Vehicle Passport before 01/01/19

Otherwise, as time goes by and CCLB's expire, you will need to fit self starting in order to get a Vehicle Passport.

surely even if you have a shiny new passport you still have possession of the old log book. ergo no requirement for self commencement. just make sure you keep hold of the original logbook .


Hasta
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I now know a liitle more about using an extinguisher
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  #4  
Old 03-10-17, 14:04
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I need to re read the regs associated with hillclimb cars and the need for a fire extinguisher......
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  #5  
Old 03-10-17, 14:05
kano nordie kano nordie is offline
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And the reason for the rule changes are?????? (increase weight the greatest effect on the lightest cars)
I was wondering if I could find and restore an old 2 stroke Jedi, self starting could be a big no no
John
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Old 03-10-17, 14:23
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What makes you think that the fire extinguisher regulation applies to Speed, Hillclimb and Sprint cars?

Last edited by fiestajohn; 03-10-17 at 14:47.
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  #7  
Old 03-10-17, 14:38
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Again rule changes with no empirical evidence of need to drive them!

Interesting it says 'all other existing vehicles' from 2022... Poor wording again unless they actually mean you will be compelled to fit a plumbed in system to your shopping car in order to compete in the road classes.
Oh, how about lifing?... Will we be expected to scrap the lot periodically and buy new lifed kit??... More 'clarification' soon from the expert wordsmiths of the MSA??
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  #8  
Old 03-10-17, 14:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiestajohn View Post
What makes you think that the fire extinguisher regulation applies to Speed, Hillclimb band Sprint cars?
Not long to wait for the 2018 BB, I'm sure it'll be clearer (not) in there.
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  #9  
Old 03-10-17, 14:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiestajohn View Post
What makes you think that the fire extinguisher regulation applies to Speed, Hillclimb and Sprint cars?

All new build from 01/01/2019, and all other existing vehicles from 01/01/2022 must carry a fire extinguisher to FIA 8865-2015

I think that must mean Speed, Hillclimb and Sprint cars !
But you never know.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-17, 14:52
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There's not been an 'Appendix 3' previously... All new stuff so it remains to be seen if speed events maintain their 'recommended' status.... Sincerely hope so.

Log book stuff was obviously on its way

Starting won't impact on existing cars and has time to be allowed for by home builders and pro constructors.
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