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  #71  
Old 07-12-17, 15:06
postman postman is offline
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Yes, Jeff's car looks absolutely superb, professional and safe as you can get to me. I'm not saying the ROPS rules are perfect, only that speed events are not necessarily safer than circuit racing, so perhaps the regs could be either the same or maybe anything that meets circuit regs should surely be fine for speed events (is this how it always seems to have worked in the past anyway?).
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  #72  
Old 07-12-17, 15:18
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(I should add that I no longer compete unfortunately, so don't really have the right to an ill thought out opinion).
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  #73  
Old 07-12-17, 16:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffwiltshire View Post
However putting a Blue Book compliant ROPS on is not the end of the world and at least we now know what is required and how to resolve the issue before presenting it for a Vehicle Passport check. So all good really.
That's the positive to take out of this, you have a way forward and know it soon enough to get it sorted in time for next season. Frustrating as it will be.
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  #74  
Old 07-12-17, 19:09
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For me it comes down to safety. I'm not a mechanical engineer who specialises in crashes involving race cars (if you want IT Security and you are an Investment Bank, that I can help with) so I take the MSA BB as the minimum I need on the car for safety purposes without resorting to FEA or non-destructive testing.
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  #75  
Old 28-12-17, 12:45
joutsen joutsen is offline
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I look forward to seeing the Zeus Challenger doing very well sprinting next year.

Like the early Junos and Chirons, the Zeus was designed for the short-lived National Supersports series (for sports prototype cars and powered by c.200bhp Vauxhall engines etc). Most cars from that series then migrated to Sports 2000, FIA CN etc. and would have been modified accordingly, to formulae and/or generic regulations (including ROPs). This Zeus has lately been competing in the Excool Open Sports Series, which as far as I know is the only race series that it is eligible for. A generic ROPS to either MSA or FIA specification will no doubt increase the value of the car, as well as offering increased protection in a car that will potentially have about 400bhp more than it was originally designed for. Sounds like a Norma slayer in the making!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kano nordie View Post
The "Trackstar always springs to my mind when thinking of the biggest rule bender/breaker and always appeared to have complicit support from the MSA, who took an age to come to their corporate senses and remove their head from the MSA rectum
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson View Post
The MSA were hoisted by their own petard by a simple request to define wheelbase. I don't believe for a minute that there was "complicit support" just a realisation that they had cocked-up and not wishing to create a bigger fuss by banning a car they had inadvertently said was legal.
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Originally Posted by kano nordie View Post
Steve it was also entered in the 500 racing car class, but failed as a single seat race car as the engine/driver were side by side, more like a clubmans car by definition? The CoC refused to accept our protest and returned our money after the meeting at Shellsey when the car/kart had already gone home, We were also quietly told by scrutineers that they had been told by RACMSA not to reject it on any of its"contentious issues?
Happy days
John
"'Tis the season of goodwill to all men."

I think this should include Phil Jeffries and the late Dick Foden. I met them a few times and I thought both were well respected in the paddock and on track, mostly for their fearless drives in the Trakstar. Whilst the Trakstar may have been “controversial” to some, I have never heard anything to substantiate any claim that Jeffries or Foden bent or broke any technical regulation. As such, the Trakstar was not the biggest (or more accurately) the littlest of rule benders or breakers. I imagine the same applied to Ray Rowan and others in the Motus and other previous kart derived cars.

For clarity, the 1988 (and previous years') BB did not specify a central seating position in the definition of a single-seater racing car. This is why Mallocks and others were eligible to race in Formula Ford and F3 even if they were not the obvious choice or the most competitive; if you look at the current definition, as period-defined cars they still can… and do.

There was also no generic minimum wheelbase requirement in 1988 BB (except the 200cm requirement for FF1600, FF2000 and F4). I guess this was revised to the current minimum 184cm for all classes in 1989. As far as I know, the Trakstar (with trailer) complied with this minimum. Obviously the MSA subsequently acted to clarify wheelbase dimensions be taken from a driven axle.

The evidence suggests that the MSA explicitly supported the removal of karts and kart based cars from speed events by changing the regulations. I don’t believe for one second that Phil Jeffries or Dick Foden had the support of the MSA (I’m sure they would laugh at the suggestion)… or more seriously that there was any complicity (involvement with others in an activity that is unlawful or morally wrong)… for the simple reason that the evidence says otherwise.

Personally, I think it was a shame that some were not up to the challenge of competing with the Trakstar. I remember the buzz going round the paddock as Phil and Dick were due for a run. In the end, it wasn’t that much faster than a decent 500… Jo reminds me he got down to within half a second at Harewood in the Nemesis.

Say what you like about the MSA, I don’t think fellow competitor’s reputations should be tarnished in a public forum without cast-iron evidence, although I’m sure this wasn’t the intention.

Greg

Last edited by joutsen; 28-12-17 at 13:38.
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  #76  
Old 29-12-17, 04:17
kano nordie kano nordie is offline
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Hi Greg,
No intention to tarnish the reputations of Phil or Dick, they were both skillful and committed drivers, sometimes needed with such a short wheel base and "limited" suspension on a bumpy hillclimb, it did look a bit of a handful at times!
Our one and only protest was with the Blue Book in hand with the definition of a single seat race car saying it must have a symmetrical driver seating and engine position, I cant remember which year that would be, but before it became a 6 wheeler.
It was a crowd pleaser, but should be no surprise how quick it could be if you have ever seen 250 karts at Cadwell or Oulton park, where they could lap on the pace of an F3 car.
My complaint is with the MSA for not regulating our sport unless they feel like it and enforcing the rules, it was not a single seat race car, it was a kart, If there are enough competitors wishing to race karts make a class for them as is done in the Channel Islands.
Regards
John
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  #77  
Old 30-12-17, 09:09
Teddie2003 Teddie2003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joutsen View Post
I remember the buzz going round the paddock as Phil and Dick were due for a run. In the end, it wasn’t that much faster than a decent 500… Jo reminds me he got down to within half a second at Harewood in the Nemesis.

Greg
Yes, I remember seeing the pair of them competing at Gurston, people in the paddock and the public were always looking for a good view of the runs. Seeing them seemingly flat through "hollow" was great and also scary at the same time.
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  #78  
Old 04-02-18, 06:16
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Recently Mygale have referred a couple of people to me (cheeky) regarding SJ01 chassis owners in the UK looking for rops certs, and when I asked these people if they were sprinting, they said no, circuit racing, and that the rumour was that rops certs were going to be introduced in 2019 for other racing disciplines...

I pointed them towards the MSA...
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  #79  
Old 04-02-18, 07:12
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So did you get through inspection and do you have a passport? Season will soon be on us
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  #80  
Old 04-02-18, 08:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamb View Post
Recently Mygale have referred a couple of people to me (cheeky) regarding SJ01 chassis owners in the UK looking for rops certs, and when I asked these people if they were sprinting, they said no, circuit racing, and that the rumour was that rops certs were going to be introduced in 2019 for other racing disciplines...

I pointed them towards the MSA...
And wished them 'Good Luck' .......?!!
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