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  #1  
Old 10-10-17, 22:30
Sulian Sulian is offline
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Help required for newbie

I am looking to start racing next year and am in the process of converting my track day car into an MSA compliant hill climber.

The above seems to be my first mistake, I currently run an MG ZR fitted with a Rover 2.0 Turbo lump, this to my surprise lands me in the Sports Libre class and to be honest I'm having some difficulty plowing through the applicable regulations.

Having perused the forum my first query regarding a licence has been resolved as I understand that a National B licence can be used as long as the vehicle is road legal.. which it is and will be.

The remainder of the questions I have, and there is quite a list regarding roll cage, seats, harnesses, fuel tank and more I haven't been able to answer and I seem to be tying myself in knots picking the pieces from the blue book.

After that preamble the short question is - is there a person/group I can speak to that could advise me on regulatory issues with the build.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 11-10-17, 06:41
Bispers Bispers is offline
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I guess you have seen the general information at http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/introspeed.asp

Sports Libre would be a fairly unusual category to start in. While being possible it might be worth a quick step-back to consider whether the extra complexity and Blue Book requirements mean another category would be better for you as a newcomer, albeit maybe in a different car? You can easily find specialist cars like Radicals in your class.
I would also double check whether your car may be eligible for the Modified Production categories if you have not already done so (Blue Book p345)

The answers to technical questions are all in the Blue Book, once you have navigated through it, but the other main sources of info will be:

< talking to other competitors who've been down this path before you. (Might be worth posting your location to see if a local competitor pops-up on here).
< MSA Technical on 01753 765500
< A scrutineer in your area or on here.

Hope this helps.
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  #3  
Old 11-10-17, 06:54
kano nordie kano nordie is offline
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If you do end up in Libre, just enjoy, nobody will expect you to blow the doors of a specialist car with something road legal, I would think the last time a road going car used to beat none road going was Nick Man in his Minor Rover, a long time ago.
John
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Old 11-10-17, 08:27
Rob Stevens Rob Stevens is offline
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I think you might find it easier to put an engine from a MG ZR back in? I think that is the K series some with turbo. I guess you have the T series turbo from 800's and the like?
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  #5  
Old 11-10-17, 13:37
Sulian Sulian is offline
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Despite 12.6.2 as the engine was not an original option it immediately falls into Libre, I have thought of dropping a ZR 160 engine back in and going into ModProd but I'm loathed to do it as considerable work has gone into the 620 Turbo engine and gearbox, forged internals, remap, rebuilt box with caged bearings etc. and most importantly I like the car.

I realise that it and I won't be competitive but that initially isn't my goal.

I think my main sticking point at the moment is what cage I have to fit as the BB doesn't appear clear as to specification for Libre. It says must comply with K1.6.3 which seems only relevant to the Caterham type or radical single seater.

I live in Swindon so if there is anyone in the area that has experience of the class and it's regs I'd be grateful to hear from them.

I shall persevere for the time being and once I have a better understanding of what needs doing I'll make the decision on the power plant.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-17, 14:24
kano nordie kano nordie is offline
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Do you have a cage in the car now? if so try to get a local scrute to check it out, If not you will have to make, or have made for you a cage, BB compliant needs a full saloon car type cage as you would find in circuit racer or rally car, there are recommended drawings for this in the BB but next year will need additional cross braising in the roof area, which many people are complaining about as they either have to cut out the cage, or cut out the roof to fit the cross braising, The last cage I made I got P&P cages to supply me a pre-bent kit of pipes, (they had done the same type car before) which I then positioned in the car, measured up the extra length to cut off the ends and then welded it up.
John
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Old 11-10-17, 14:55
MurrayN MurrayN is offline
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For libre, I am pretty sure its a 6 point roll cage you need.
However I cant remember if it is required if the car is competing in a road legal condition. Been a while since I read the rules regarding that.
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Old 11-10-17, 17:26
Dan Friel Dan Friel is offline
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There's no obvious safety discount for road legal cars. You'd need the full works I'm afraid. Have a read of section k of the blue book.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-17, 18:13
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Biggles Biggles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kano nordie View Post
If not you will have to make, or have made for you a cage, BB compliant needs a full saloon car type cage as you would find in circuit racer or rally car, there are recommended drawings for this in the BB but next year will need additional cross braising in the roof area.
John
That's not correct. The requirement for a roof bar is for rally cars only - new build from 1/1/19, existing cars from 1/1/22 - see https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesoctober2017.pdf
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  #10  
Old 11-10-17, 18:27
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Biggles Biggles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulian View Post
Having perused the forum my first query regarding a licence has been resolved as I understand that a National B licence can be used as long as the vehicle is road legal.. which it is and will be.

The remainder of the questions I have, and there is quite a list regarding roll cage, seats, harnesses, fuel tank and more I haven't been able to answer and I seem to be tying myself in knots picking the pieces from the blue book.
On a Nat B licence, as of 1/1/18, the car needs to compete in a road legal condition, ie tax, MOT, insurance and road legal tyres.

Basic 6 point cage with diagonal, door bars are optional. FIA belts needed. No specific seat requirements. Std fuel tank is fine but if you've fitted a small one inside, it'll need to be enclosed.

I run my rally car in SL. It'll never be competitive but who cares - I do it for fun not trophies.
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