Uphill Racers

Go Back   Uphill Racers > Technical > Rules & Reg's
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Downloads Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 25-01-18, 21:09
gsyracer's Avatar
gsyracer gsyracer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 696
gsyracer is on a distinguished road
Or debate?

The MSA messed up when they made it OK for production cars to end up being more powerful than some modified cars without the safety features.

Ie, new blood to the sport would usually get a cheap road car to play with, gradually adding different parts taking it into the modified category. Now anyone with a driving licence can race any kind of car that's road legal whilst those of us who have spent thousands preparing cars to the MSA safety regs end up probably going slower than said road legal cars. I know you can't reduce the power of some cars but when my rally car has 75bhp and has to have every safety mod on the planet and goes up against an EVO with NO safety mods... It takes the biscuit.

At least I know if I crash I'm likely to walk away but that's not really my point.

Rant over
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26-01-18, 06:29
kano nordie kano nordie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kano Nigeria
Posts: 1,115
kano nordie will become famous soon enough kano nordie will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
Increasing costs is the only way to bring new blood into our sport. "Discuss".
The new MSA initiative way forward to close all forms of club motorsport
John
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26-01-18, 08:15
Mike Wood Mike Wood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW Scotland
Posts: 98
Mike Wood is on a distinguished road
Can some more experienced heads answer the following please.

Is there a concern about potential fire risk from these non-lead acid batteries related to how they are installed and used, as well as to what specification and standard they are manufactured against?

If so, does the Blue Book need regs on installation and use, combined with a requirement for such batteries to meet a suitable standard and specification. If we were talking about washing machines etc I would expect Council of Europe (CE) marking, for other products a British Standard, for aircraft components approved by a relevant airworthiness body (e.g. FAA/CAA/EASA etc), road cars type approval etc Are lead acid car batteries certified against a standard?

I am not clear how the MSA licensing of non-lead acid battery makers would fit in with the above (if these are relevant issues).

Final thought - has the well publicised fires/faults on commercial aircraft related to overheating lithium batteries raised this issue to 'something needs to be done'? What is the experience and regulatory aspects related to bikes, light and commercial aircraft for use of these as well as CAA regulation, type approval for road vehicles and Health and Safety Executive aspects? Have I missed something - haven't Varley Red Top batteries (ie. gel batteries before lithium) been used in light aircraft for many years (for which they were designed, only later adopted by circuit racers) albeit with battery isolators when not in use?

Cheers
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26-01-18, 11:02
kano nordie kano nordie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kano Nigeria
Posts: 1,115
kano nordie will become famous soon enough kano nordie will become famous soon enough
Hi Mike,
I wanted to bring a couple of batteries out to Africa for my bikes and have bought Odysseys gel batteries out before without too much hassle but was told no way for lithium batteries to be carried on board, a bit ironic when almost everybody on the plane has laptops and phones all with lithium batteries.
John
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26-01-18, 11:37
grahamb's Avatar
grahamb grahamb is offline
#UNLEARN
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fordshire
Posts: 4,086
grahamb will become famous soon enough grahamb will become famous soon enough
I'm a big fan of Robot Wars, and having watched the latest excellent series on the Beeb, there were several instances of fires starting when Lithium batteries were short circuited during the fighting, and boy do they produce a lot of smoke, and combustible gasses, which eventually lead to flames when they go wrong? They tended to let them burn themselves out too, certainly there looked to be apprehension from the fire marshals when approaching with extinguishers.

In the Mygale I'm sat with a lead acid battery between my legs which will be a Lithium battery this year. And the consequences of having a shunt, and the battery bursting in to flames, if I'm trapped inside the car, is making me think seriously about relocating it to a sidepod.

Maybe the MSA should be thinking that they are perhaps located away from the driver....

And another issue might be, would on board extinguishers be of any real use if released on to a burning Lithium battery? Or would AFFF just make the fire worse? How do you put out a burning Li battery?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26-01-18, 11:55
dopdog's Avatar
dopdog dopdog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 1,041
dopdog will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by kano nordie View Post
Hi Mike,
I wanted to bring a couple of batteries out to Africa for my bikes and have bought Odysseys gel batteries out before without too much hassle but was told no way for lithium batteries to be carried on board, a bit ironic when almost everybody on the plane has laptops and phones all with lithium batteries.
John
its the combined capacity of the battery that is the issue, you can have loads of smaller batteries that come under the max capacity. For work I have a IATA Guidance document that i can refer to when carrying battery powered items.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26-01-18, 12:12
mike.w mike.w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 62
mike.w is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamb View Post
I'm a big fan of Robot Wars, and having watched the latest excellent series on the Beeb, there were several instances of fires starting when Lithium batteries were short circuited during the fighting, and boy do they produce a lot of smoke, and combustible gasses, which eventually lead to flames when they go wrong? They tended to let them burn themselves out too, certainly there looked to be apprehension from the fire marshals when approaching with extinguishers.

In the Mygale I'm sat with a lead acid battery between my legs which will be a Lithium battery this year. And the consequences of having a shunt, and the battery bursting in to flames, if I'm trapped inside the car, is making me think seriously about relocating it to a sidepod.

Maybe the MSA should be thinking that they are perhaps located away from the driver....

And another issue might be, would on board extinguishers be of any real use if released on to a burning Lithium battery? Or would AFFF just make the fire worse? How do you put out a burning Li battery?
Blue book states if battery is fitted in cockpit it should be fitted behind the seat [Section J 5.14.1] so best to move it anyway
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26-01-18, 12:27
grahamb's Avatar
grahamb grahamb is offline
#UNLEARN
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fordshire
Posts: 4,086
grahamb will become famous soon enough grahamb will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike.w View Post
Blue book states if battery is fitted in cockpit it should be fitted behind the seat [Section J 5.14.1] so best to move it anyway
Thanks Mike, I'll get the tin snips out... Needless to say, not one scrute has ever pointed this out in 2yrs competing
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 26-01-18, 12:30
Nick Skidmore's Avatar
Nick Skidmore Nick Skidmore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 686
Nick Skidmore will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike.w View Post
Blue book states if battery is fitted in cockpit it should be fitted behind the seat [Section J 5.14.1] so best to move it anyway
A lot of modern single seaters have this Battery location and are FIA homologated which seems to trump the MSA.

The issue is as has been said the Lithium is difficult to put out in a fire so a Marshall needs to be alerted.

I would think there has been a bit of lobbying by for example by Super B to the MSA against some of the CE marked imported batteries due to the 600 to 1000% price differential.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 26-01-18, 12:31
No Imagination No Imagination is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 432
No Imagination will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamb View Post

In the Mygale I'm sat with a lead acid battery between my legs which will be a Lithium battery this year. And the consequences of having a shunt, and the battery bursting in to flames, if I'm trapped inside the car, is making me think seriously about relocating it to a sidepod.
In the Dallara the battery is located on the floor behind the driver in the space formed by the curve of the panel behind the seat back. This is ideal from a packaging and weight distribution point of view but not ideal if the thing goes into meltdown! Between your legs (under your knees I guess) is probably safer, the sidepod is going to get mashed if you collide with a piece of the UK on that side..........
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright© 2007-2018 Uphill Racers www.uphillracers.com